Mustafa Barghouti: Is there Room for Gandhi in Palestine?

Click to listen to Chris’s conversation with Mustafa Barghouti. (53 minutes, 32 mb mp3)

Ask Palestinians why there is no Gandhi in their movement, and often the answer comes: but there are several, and Mustafa Barghouti should be recognized more widely as one of them.

A medical doctor, born in Jerusalem in 1954, trained both in the old Soviet Union and in the US, he is the advocate of a strong, non-violent push to a two-state deal with Israel. He got his break in the show biz of American opinion last Fall on the Daily Show. His B. D. S. campaign this Spring in the world press and on American campuses stands for Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions to bring the pressure of international attention and law on the Israeli government.

Mustafa Barghouti has set his own course in the famous Barghouti family and in Palestinian politics. With Edward Said and others in 2002, Mustafa Barghouti helped found the Palestinian National Initiative. He was the Initiative’s candidate (and ran second to Mahmood Abbas) to succeed Yasir Arafat as president of the Palestinian Authority in 2005. His Initiative banner waves for “a truly democratic and independent ‘third way’ for the large majority of silent and unrepresented Palestinian voters, who favour neither the autocracy and corruption of the governing Fatah party, nor the fundamentalism of Hamas.” In a long conversation at Brown’s Watson Institute yesterday, Dr. Barghouti seemed a model of the old virtues: patience, long-suffering, gentleness and a certain deep enthusiasm.

There isn’t any place in the world where apartheid is so systematic as it is today in Palestine… You are talking about a situation where we the Palestinians are prevented from using all our main roads because they are exclusive for Israelis and Israeli Army and Israeli settlers. This did not happen even during the segregation time in the [United] States. People could not use the same bus or same restaurant. But here you can’t use the same road even. I am an elected Member of Parliament. I ran for president in Palestine; I was second in the presidential race. I was born in Jerusalem. I worked as medical doctor, as a cardiologist, in a very important hospital in Jerusalem for 15 years. And since five years I am prevented, like 98 percent of the Palestinians, from entering Jerusalem. If I am caught in Jerusalem, I could be sentenced to seven years in jail.

This is unbelievable. You have a situation where a husband and a wife cannot be together. If a husband is from Jerusalem and his wife is from the West Bank, or the opposite, they cannot live together. Because if the husband or the wife comes to the West Bank they lose their ID, they lose their residency. And the wife or the husband from the other side cannot be granted citizenship in Jerusalem. We have never seen a situation where a country occupies a city like East Jerusalem and then declares the citizens of the city — who have lived there for hundreds, and some of the families for thousands of years — “temporary residents.” And if one of them goes out to study at Brown for five years for instance, they would lose their residency. This is what you see are acts of ethnic cleansing.

There isn’t a place in the world where officially the policy is, if I have a person with a heart attack and I need to get him to a hospital in Jerusalem or in Israel, I have to get a military permit from a coordinator in the military headquarters. And this can take hours or days, or it can not be granted at all. I’ve had patients die in front of my eyes because I could not get them through the checkpoints. We had 80 women who had to give birth at checkpoints, and 30 of them lost their babies. And to me, the fact that a woman cannot give birth in a dignified manner, and having to give birth in front of foreign soldiers out in the street, is equal to the utmost injustice. Tell me, where does that happen anywhere in the world? And this is happening by a country that is claiming that it is a democracy and that it is civilized. And by people that have had suffering in the past. I mean, that’s what amazes me, you know. People who understand how terrible it is to be discriminated against…

So we ask ourselves: how do we make the Israelis change their minds? How do we convince them to stop the oppressive system which is hurting our future and their future? …We have to make their system of occupation painful; and we have to make their system of occupation costly. This can be done through only two ways: either you turn to violence, which I totally disagree with, I don’t believe in and I think is counterproductive; or you turn to non-violence and mobilizing international pressures on Israel, as people did in the case of the apartheid system in South Africa. If it wasn’t for the divestment sanctions campaign in the 80s and 90s we would never have seen the apartheid system fall apart in South Africa, simply because the balance of forces between the regime and the people is so big in the interest of the regime. We have the same situation in Palestine. That’s why I speak about divestment and sanctions to encourage non-violence. This is the only way we make non-violent resistance succeed, by having an international component, especially in the United States. We are not talking about boycotting Israel, or Israeli people. We are talking about boycotting occupation and about divestment from occupation and military industry that is exploiting people, that is destroying people’s lives and that is consolidating an apartheid system. So we are calling for divestment from occupation and apartheid and injustice…

Let’s say we have a Palestinian state and an Israel state. This will make many Israelis calmer because they will not be afraid about the Jewish nature of Israel as a state, although 20 percent of its citizens are Palestinian today. Eventually there will be cooperation between the Palestinian state and the Israeli state, economically, say. I don’t see a problem with us and Israel joining the European Union together, for instance. But Israel has to answer a bigger question.

I mean, Israel is not an island in the ocean. Israel is an island in the Middle East. What we have so far is an Israeli government that is always in conflict with others. They seek conflict, in my opinion, and they use this conflict to justify oppression of Palestinians, and to justify a lack of solutions to the Palestinian-Israeli conflict. First it was the Soviet Union: they could not make a solution because a Palestinian state would be closer to the Soviet Union, for instance – or with Egypt which was at that time closer to the Soviet Union. Then it was the problem of Egypt and Syria, and then they had peace with Egypt and ceasefire with Syria. They had a problem with Iraq. Today they speak about Iran. Tomorrow if Iran is no problem they probably will start speaking about Azerbaijan. They keep looking for an external justification for a problem that’s internal.

Many Israelis speak of this. And they ask: in a globalized world when you have economic cooperation, why does Israel want us not to be a democracy? Why did they kill twice already our best experiences developing a democratic system – once in 1976 when we had the first municipatlity elections, and they didn’t like the results. At the time there was no Hamas; at that time Israel was cooperating with Islamic parties against the secular national democratic groups like us. And they killed the results of the 2006 elections which were praised by the United States and the world community as the best democratic elections in the Middle East. You see, I see racism here. Why are Israelis entitled to democracy and Palestinians are not? The question is why are they afraid of us being a democracy? Because we will have a government that cannot be manipulated?

Mustafa Barghouti in conversation with Chris Lydon at Brown’s Watson Institute, April 29, 2010.

Comments

9 thoughts on “Mustafa Barghouti: Is there Room for Gandhi in Palestine?

  1. From (among many sources) The Volokh Conspiracy weblog:

    April 16, 2010

    So here are some interesting data from a recent poll conducted by a Palestinian polling outfit based at a university in Nablus. The (relatively) good news: Do you accept the creation of a Palestinian state on the total area of the 1967 borders as a final solution for the Palestinian problem? Yes 51.7 No 44.7

    The bad news: Do you accept the creation of a Palestinian state within the 1967 borders with some land exchange as a final solution for the Palestinian problem [the far more plausible scenario]? Yes 28.3% No 66.7%

    The really bad news: Do you support or reject making Jerusalem a capital for two states: Palestine and Israel? Support 20.8% Reject 77.4%

    http://volokh.com/2010/04/16/more-on-what-if-the-palestinians-dont-want-a-state/

    =======================================================

    Results of Palestinian Public Opinion Poll

    No . 40

    8-10 April 2010

    An-Najah Poll of Palesitnians: Overwhelming

    Do you accept the creation of a Palestinian state within the 1967 borders

    with some land exchange as a final solution for the Palestinian problem?

    Yes 28.3

    No 66.7

    No opinion/I do not know 5.0

    Do you support or reject making Jerusalem a capital for two states:

    Palestine and Israel?

    I support 20.8

    I reject 77.4

    No opinion/I do not know 1.8

    An-Najah National University

    Center for Opinion Polls and Survey Studies

    Tel: (972) (9) 2345113 Fax: (972)(9) 2345982

    Nablus – Palestinian: P.O.Box 7, 707

    Email: Polls@najah.edu hussein596@yahoo.com

    Results of Palestinian Public Opinion Poll

    No . 40

    8-10 April 2010

    The Results

    Following are the results of the Palestinian Public Opinion Poll no. 40

    conducted by the Center for Opinion Polls and Survey Studies at An-Najah

    National University during the period from 8-10 April 2010. The sample

    included 1861 persons whose age group is 18 and above and who have the right

    to vote. The enclosed questionnaire was distributed on 861 persons from the

    West Bank and 500 persons from the Gaza Strip. The sample was drawn randomly

    and the margin of error is about ±3%; still 2.7% of the members of the

    sample refused to answer the questionnaire.

    _____________________________________________________________________

    The opinions represented in the results reflect those of the study; they do

    not, by any means, represent the opinion of An-Najah National University.

    The General Results of the Poll

    Prime Minister Salam Fayyad announced that the Palestinian Authority will

    declare in August 2011 the creation of the Palestinian State. Do you support

    or reject that?

    I support 71.3

    I reject 24.6

    No opinion/I do not know 4.0

    Do you think that the USA will succeed in exerting pressure on Israel to

    stop building settlements in East Jerusalem and the West Bank for a

    four-month period?

    Yes 21.3

    No 73.5

    No opinion/I do not know 5.2

    Do you support or reject conducting direct talks between the Palestinian

    Authority and the Israeli Government?

    I support 48.7

    I reject 47.3

    No opinion/I do not know 4.0

    Do you support or reject conducting indirect talks between the

    Palestinian Authority and the Israeli Government?

    I support 34.0

    I reject 60.8

    No opinion/I do not know 5.2

    The Palestinian Authority decided not to negotiate with the Israeli

    Government while the latter continues to build settlements in the West Bank

    and East Jerusalem. Do you support or reject the PA’s decision?

    I support 78.6

    I reject 19.0

    No opinion/I do not know 2.4

    Do you support or reject conducting talks between the Palestinian

    Authority and the Israeli Government in case Israel continues building

    settlements in the West Bank and East Jerusalem?

    I support 14.3

    I reject 83.0

    No opinion/I do not know 2.8

    Do you think that the resolutions made by the Arab Summit relating to

    the Palestinian problem are satisfactory?

    Yes 8.3

    No 83.0

    No opinion/I do not know 7.6

    Do you believe that the Arab countries will carry out the resolutions that

    the Arab Summit issued relating to the Palestinian issue and Jerusalem?

    Yes , they will 11.6

    No , they will not 79.5

    No opinion/I do not know 8.9

    A group of Palestinian factions in the Gaza Strip declared that they

    ceased firing rockets from the Gaza Strip. Do you support or reject their

    decision?

    I support 56.1

    I reject 37.7

    No opinion/I do not know 6.2

    Do you think that the position of Hamas regarding firing rockets from

    Gaza has become congruent with that of the Palestinian Authority?

    Yes 55.6

    No 33.5

    No opinion/I do not know 10.9

    Do you think that a national reconciliation agreement can be reached

    between Fateh and Hamas in the near future?

    Yes 51.3

    No 42.5

    No opinion/I do not know 6.2

    If a reconciliation agreement is signed, who, in your opinion, benefits

    from signing the agreement?

    Fateh 22.2

    Hamas 15.7

    Others 48.4

    No opinion/I do not know 13.7

    Are you optimistic or pessimistic towards singing the reconciliation

    agreement in the near future?

    I am optimistic 50.6

    I am pessimistic 45.8

    No opinion/I do not know 3.6

    Do you think that the sides of the Palestinian dialogue, particularly

    Fateh and Hamas, are genuinely concerned with ending the state of

    Palestinian division?

    Yes 44.7

    No 42.2

    I am not concerned 9.6

    No opinion/I do not know 3.5

    Do you think that failure to reach a national reconciliation is

    because some people seek to achieve———————?

    Personal interests 48.9

    Party and factional interests 42.6

    No opinion/I do not know 8.5

    What, in your opinion, delays the signing of the national reconciliation

    agreement?

    Arab pressures on some sides 17.6

    Regional pressures on some sides 27.6

    Factional interests of Fateh and Hamas 44.0

    No opinion/I do not know 10.9

    Do you think that concluding the Shalit deal will speed up the process

    of national reconciliation?

    Yes 41.7

    No 51.0

    No opinion/I do not know 7.3

    In case a national reconciliation agreement is signed, do you think

    that the signing of the agreement will ——–?

    Speed up the peace process 32.7

    Freeze and entangle the peace process 12.3

    Have no effect 48.7

    No opinion/I do not know 6.2

    In case the national reconciliation is achieved, how will that affect

    you in the following situations: (Please, arrange them on a 0-10 scale)

    Economic 5.7509

    Social 6.0029

    Political 5.9765

    Psychological 7.0507

    Do you accept the creation of a Palestinian state on the area of the

    1967 borders as a final solution for the Palestinian problem?

    Yes 51.7

    No 44.7

    No opinion/I do not know 3.5

    Do you accept the creation of a Palestinian state within the 1967

    borders with some land exchange as a final solution for the Palestinian

    problem?

    Yes 28.3

    No 66.7

    No opinion/I do not know 5.0

    What form do you envision the final solution of the Palestinian problem

    will take?

    A comprehensive solution 66.7

    A piecemeal solution (on stages) 30.3

    No opinion/I do not know 2.9

    Do you support or reject making Jerusalem a capital for two states:

    Palestine and Israel?

    I support 20.8

    I reject 77.4

    No opinion/I do not know 1.8

    From which aspects do you see Jerusalem important to you?

    (Please, arrange them on a 0-10 scale)

    Religious 9.7032

    National/ethnic 8.9802

    Political 8.8942

    Historica l9.4548

    Do you think that the volume of struggle between settlers and Palestinians

    will escalate within the coming stage?

    Yes 81.5

    No 12.0

    No opinion/I do not know 6.5

    In case settlements remain in place within a final solution pact, do

    you think that they will cause political, economic, religious, and ethnic

    problems?

    (Please, arrange them on a 0-10 scale)

    Political 8.3549

    Economic 7.8038

    Religious 8.1852

    Ethnic 7.8824

    There are certain sides that seek to obstruct conducting presidential,

    legislative, and municipality elections in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip.

    From your own point view which of the following sides does not want to

    conduct elections?

    Fateh 11.8

    Hamas 36.7

    Other sides 35.0

    No opinion/I do not know 16.5

    If presidential elections are held in the present time, to whom from

    among the following do you give your vote?

    An independent candidate 6.0

    A candidate from the left 2.9

    A candidate from Hamas 9.8

    A candidate from Fateh 30.1

    A national independent candidate 4.9

    An Islamic independent candidate 2.7

    I will not participate in the elections 23.8

    I have not decided yet 19.8

    If new PLC elections are conducted, whom do you vote for?

    An independent ticket 5.9

    A ticket from the left 2.6

    A ticket from Hamas 10.1

    A ticket from Fateh 30.4

    A national independent ticket 4.7

    An Islamic independent ticket 2.9

    I will not participate in the elections 23.9

    I have not decided yet 19.5

    If new legislative elections were to be held today, which of the

    following would win?

    Independent Islamists bloc 4.0

    Independent Nationalist bloc 6.4

    Fateh bloc 46.0

    Hamas bloc 15.8

    A bloc from leftist organizations 1.6

    No opinion/I do not know 26.2

    The Ministry of Local Government declared the current municipalities

    and local councils caretaker ones until elections are held. Do you support

    or reject the declaration of the Ministry?

    I support 61.3

    I reject 28.6

    No opinion/I do not know 10.1

    Do you support or reject conducting municipality and local council

    elections in August 2010?

    I support 79.1

    I reject 15.2

    No opinion/I do not know 5.7

    If municipality and local council elections were to be held, who do you

    vote for?

    A block that represents the family or clan 9.3

    An independent ticket 4.4

    A ticket from the left 1.8

    A ticket from Hamas 8.7

    A ticket from Fateh 25.0

    A national independent ticket 5.1

    An Islamic independent ticket 2.6

    I will not participate in the elections 19.5

    I have not decided yet 23.7

    Do you support or reject the strikes of the unions of school

    teachers, university teachers, the employees of the health sector —etc?

    I support 39.4

    I reject 55.3

    No opinion/I do not know 5.3

    As you know, there is a government in the West Bank led by Salam

    Fayyad and another government in the Gaza Strip led by Ismail Haniyeh. In

    your opinion which government is more capable of managing the internal

    Palestinian affairs?

    The government of Salam Fayyad 63.6

    The Government of Ismail Haniyeh 20.1

    No opinion/I do not know 16.3

    How do you assess the performance of the government of Salam Fayyad?

    Good 65.4

    Bad 26.3

    No opinion/I do not know 8.3

    How do you assess the performance of the government of Ismail Haniyeh?

    Good 31.2

    Bad 45.3

    No opinion/I do not know 23.4

    Are you worried about your life under the present circumstances?

    Yes 48.9

    No 49.4

    No opinion/I do not know 1.7

    Are you pessimistic or optimistic towards the general Palestinian

    situation at this stage?

    Optimistic 34.2

    Pessimistic 63.0

    No opinion/I do not know 2.8

    Under the present circumstances, do you feel that you, your family and

    your properties are safe?

    Yes 23.1

    May be 36.1

    No 39.8

    No opinion/I do not know 1.0

    Which of the following political affiliations do you support ?

    PARTY

    People’s Party 0.7

    Democratic Front 0.6

    Islamic Jihad 2.2

    Fateh 35.5

    Hamas 12.3

    Fida 0.1

    Popular Front 3.1

    Palestinian National Initiative 0.9

    I am an independent nationalist 5.0

    I am an independent Islamist 3.5

    No ne of the above 35.7

    Others0.4

  2. Let me preface this by saying that I dome from a jewish background, orthodox, Zionist, half my relatives have moved to Israel. I have been there several times. I love the country. I have felt Palestinian anger and been disturbed by it. I have been disturbed by the injustices and the stark difference between how Israeli’s live and how Palestinians live.

    You reveal to us a good man in Dr. Mustapha Barghouti,and his third way party. I hope they prevail. His gentle reasonable voice here is very important because there are those who call themselves pro Israel who believe or who need to believe that all Palestinians are terrorists, irrational, and want to destroy Israel.

    I am so sure that passive resistance will work on Israeli’s especially if it can be religiously observed or even nearly so. There are protests now in East Jerusalem that seem to catching the world’s attention. Something needs to jolt Israeli’s who are too comfortable behind their walls, checkpoints and siege of Gaza. Who wants war.

    I have wavered about the BDS campaign, thought it would give Israeli’s more reason to claim this is more anti-Israel, anti-Semitic. There is a new propaganda campaign, almost fascist in nature, to hush criticism, to defend Israel from what is being called “delegitimzation”. But many who love Israel, who want to see it survive and normalize, are for some kind of wake up call such as BDS. Barghouti is correct I think, that this is as much about saving Israel from itself as relieving Palestinian suffering.

    Israeli’s and their supporters here in the US should be given no further excuse to point to the violence or the threats as reason to make war on the entire population of Palestinians while settlers continue to take their land and obstruct the peace process.

    It seems to me at times as though Israeli’s are quite happy with no peace- that the game is to say they want a two state solution, but to stall for time until I don’t know what. Palestinians are not going to go away. This of course makes it very tempting for those who want violence.

    It’s not only the government, it’s the Israeli people who supporting the government policies overwhelmingly. I recommend Gideon Levy: Israel’s Tyranny of the Majority is Dangerous

    Barghouti says that Israel has security. But deep feelings of insecurity are there and nurtured. They grab history, the vicious rhetoric of Iran’s leader/s and any violence or threat of vioence aimed at israel for proof of existential threat.

    The stories about the Gaza war should sicken- Jews especially. I think it does. It’s amazing to read that there is a protest at Brandeis University about having the current Israeli ambassador Michael Oren speak at commencement- Brandeis is not Berkeley!

    Bernard Avishai’s concept of a Hebrew Republic is beautiful, visionary, rational, mature, something better for everyone- but maybe too sensible, too rational for those buried in emotion, unwilling to let go.

    I think now both sides need there own space. Israel may need some shock therapy. I blame Israel because it’s the stronger, holds the cards in this, and has been indulged by the US, I agree also to blame.

    I hope something comes from a growing Palestinian passive resistance. I hope in my lifetime. And it would be something to celebrate if international law were finally imposed through such pressure. I am encouraged by Obama’s threat to Netanyahu, if it’s real, that the US would not prevent a new UN resolution.

  3. Sorry for my above typos:

    I meant to add a thanks for the heads up on the Roger Cohen articles of late April ( annoying that they are not in the print edition) all good especially “Unyielding Angst”:

    To enter Israel is to pass through a hall of mirrors. A nation exerting complete military dominance in the West Bank becomes one that, under an almost unimaginable peace accord, might be menaced from there.

    A nation whose army and arsenal are without rival in the Middle East becomes one facing daily existential threat. A nation whose power has grown steadily over decades relative to its scattered enemies becomes one whose future is somehow less secure than ever.

  4. My # 3 on this and then I promise I will go away.

    The poll above indicates that W B Palestinians are pessimistic, don’t feel safe, are positive about Fayaad and Fateh and not so much Hamas. Polls are about how people feel at the moment. It’s been in a very long excruciating moment with regard to this situation for Palestinians. For so long hopes that have risen on both sides and then there was disappointment and devastation. It’s no wonder that Palestinians don’t feel safe, that they are pessimistic. Trust is at a lowpoint on both sides with regard to the a peace process and with good cause. Israeli’s also don’t have hope in the process but they are living in conditions considerably better behind fortress walls and checkpoints and massive arms. Negative conclusions about this poll and others on either side, about the possibility of a brighter future, should not be drawn except that this is a time when leadership matters. This has been so in the past, but never more so. People follow their leaders, especially ones they approve of. So the last few questions in this poll seem to me to be the most relevant.

    At the website link the blogger asks if Palestinians want a state. I have heard this before. I have asked and heard others ask if Israeli’s are interested in a solution to the conflict, in peace, in becoming a part of the region, willing to “allow” a state, make the necessary concessions. In Israel also you have an equally strong feeling about Jerusalem.

  5. Hi. This was another great interview and I hope it will help tell the Palestinian narrative in this terrible mess. I think that was the most important point: that most Americans only hear the perspective of the Israelis, that the Palestinian people are always viewed as either aggressors (which is ridiculous, in my opinion) or as hopeless victims, stubbornly holding back “progress”. There is no sense of scale in the story as we generally hear it, and a good case in point was the recent massacre in Gaza where Israel’s incredibly destructive offensive was justified as a response to handfuls of haphazard mortar shells, many or most of which landed on empty land. There is another story to be told, one in which Palestinians have both a moral and a political right to sovereignty, but they are being intentionally denied that right by a racist, oppressive, and ruthless Israeli government that has the unwavering support of the United States in its efforts. At best we can call the Palestinian territories a ghetto, but more and more they are looking like concentration camps. Ultimately, however, this situation was created by outside forces drawing arbitrary lines on maps, and I don’t think continuing that approach will solve the conflict. There must be some sort of pluralism somewhere in this process, and I personally feel that the idea of a “Jewish state” is at the heart of the matter. The fact that the United States has supported such a nation for so long is an affront to our fundamental political values, and contemplating the creation of another, an “Arab state”, is no better. It is for this reason that I am not bothered by the calls for the destruction of Israel, indeed I think the “Jewish state” must be destroyed and replaced with a fully democratic state that is not race-based, one in which all people under its rule are allowed equal participation in power and protection under the law.

  6. Just as those Palestinians who are happy that Palestinians are divided between Hamas and Fateh leadership are hypocrites to the notion of peace for Palestine, those who are for a two-state solution are equally misguided. Divestment will work to accomplish either the goal of one state, or two, but it should be recognized that the so-called two-state “solution” comes from those who control the monetary flow of investment: Orit Gadesh (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2005/11/GYK0.html), the head of Bain Capital, whose father was a general in the ’67 war, claims to have proposed it to Congress. Barghouti would do well to acquaint himself with the blowback South African aborigines have experienced — and why — since Apartheid ended, and such an account, by the principal leadership of the ANC, can be found in Naomi Klein’s “The Shock Doctrine.” The inequality will be just as — perhaps even more — pronounced between Palestinians and Israelis, just as it is for black South Africans and the white elites who control investment there. If that’s the case, then the only hope is a constitutional republic, where EVERY citizen, no matter if he or she is Palestinian or Israeli, has the same rights and representation (which is the type of government America’s founding fathers tried, and apparently failed, to create; they LOATHED democracy, which they considered “mob rule.”) I heartily recommend Ali Abunimah’s “One Country: A Bold Proposal to End the Israeli-Palestinian Impasse,” which demonstrates how other regions of historic conflict have united in peace for the benefit of all their citizens.

  7. “This is unbelievable. You have a situation where a husband and a wife cannot be together. If a husband is from Jerusalem and his wife is from the West Bank, or the opposite, they cannot live together. Because if the husband or the wife comes to the West Bank they lose their ID, they lose their residency. And the wife or the husband from the other side cannot be granted citizenship in Jerusalem. We have never seen a situation where a country occupies a city like East Jerusalem and then declares the citizens of the city — who have lived there for hundreds, and some of the families for thousands of years — “temporary residents.” And if one of them goes out to study at Brown for five years for instance, they would lose their residency. This is what you see are acts of ethnic cleansing.”

    Very nicely made point. I don’t have much to add to this discussion, but kudos to Mr. Barghouti for presenting the situation so well.

  8. Those who argue for a “single” State are dishonest. What they mean is an Arab state in the land of Israel where Jews will be the “tolerated” minority.

    No.

    The best outcome is two States with the Israeli Arabs moving to the PA/ Jordan territory.

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